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EMU/Creative releases new line of professional soundcards (Page 1) 		Search · New topic

Topic closed (Maxim Liadov)

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Kaleid: EMU/Creative releases new line of professional soundcards
Kaleid
Junior Member

Posts: 1
From: Sweden
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 12, 2004 07:52 PMprofile • IP
Link to the cheapest one:

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?maincategory…&product=2209

Would really like to see measurements on this card.

But, it does only provide balanced analogue out?

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 14, 2004 03:54 AMprofile • IP
Like the input, output is also software selectable between balanced (+4dB) and unbalanced (-10dB) modes.

The specs look even better than the $1000 and $400 LynxTwo and CardDeluxe. What could be possibly wrong for this E-MU 1212M card(s)?

meroveus
Member

Posts: 49
Registration: Aug 2002
posted February 15, 2004 11:09 AMprofile • IP
quote:
Fixup:
The specs look even better than the $1000 and $400 LynxTwo
I doubt this. Even if convertors were as good as ones on LynxTwo, the cards will not have the same outstanding engineering design of the Lynx cards.
However, I am very interested in these cards. It looks like they will be excellent value for money.
They are cards for musicians, not audio engineers.

quote:
Fixup:
What could be possibly wrong for this E-MU 1212M card(s)?
Drivers?

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 2
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 16, 2004 01:25 AMprofile • IP
quote:
meroveus:
Even if convertors were as good as ones on LynxTwo, the cards will not have the same outstanding engineering design of the Lynx cards.
However, I am very interested in these cards. It looks like they will be excellent value for money.
I agree, but I don't care about the actual sounding. I just want something to show beautiful RMAA graphs for my amp benchmarks.

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 3
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 25, 2004 04:05 AMprofile • IP
Musiciansfriend says available on Mar. 5! Can't wait.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040224170029…/base_pid/242512/

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 4
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 26, 2004 09:48 AMprofile • IP
audiomidi already have them and mine should arrive tomorrow. Let's see if this $199 thing is really better than the $700 Lynx L22. All its specs are equal or better, except the ADO frequency range.

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 5
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 27, 2004 12:43 AMprofile • IP
Got the 1212m! I saw AKM chips (41128, 5394)!

It beats indeed the Lynx2B (at 16/44.1) except frequence response at high end:

1212M: +0.03, -0.20, -96.4, 96.7, 0.0008, 0.0044, -97.8
Lynx2B: +0.01, -0.03, -96.6, 93.9, 0.0018, 0.0070, -92.0

All the graphs look very good with lower floors compared to Lynx2B.

Cannot do 24/96 test because 96KHz is not supported by DirectSound/MME drivers.

For $199, it is a killer. Unless the 0.2dB drop started from 10KHz to 20KHz bothers you, I see no other reasons to spend $700 for a Lynx L22. No need to mention the CardDeluxe, MIA and M-Audio.

Kaleid
Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Sweden
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 27, 2004 12:50 AMprofile • IP
Awesome. Can you post all the graphs as well?

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 6
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 27, 2004 02:28 AMprofile • IP
Here it is:

http://www.fixup.net/products/benchmarks/emu%201212m.htm

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 7
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 27, 2004 07:38 AMprofile • IP
Just did a 24/48 test:

http://www.fixup.net/products/benchmarks/1212m2448.htm

As you see, again it beats Lynx2B @24/96, except the drop at high end.

1212m: +0.02, -0.20, -113.6, 113.3, 0.0008, 0.0012, -112.2
lynx2B: +0.00, -0.01, -114.9, 112.5, 0.0019, 0.0020, -108.0

Alexey Lukin
Moderator

Posts: 306
From: Moscow, Russia
Registration: Oct 2001
Web-page
posted February 27, 2004 08:29 AMprofile • IP
Wow! I'm impressed. Any chance to see the 24/44 and 24/96 results here? (these are 2 most common modes in my recording work) I wonder - why no 96 kHz mode in MME?

Thanks for posting!

[Edited: Alexey Lukin, February 27, 2004 08:48 AM]

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 8
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 27, 2004 09:18 AMprofile • IP
I did 24/44 and it was identical to 24/48. When you select 96 KHz mode, EMU (not just 1212M; 1820 and 1820M are all the same on this) will not talk to WAVE input. Here is what's said in a note found in the package:

"DirectSound/MME/Steinberg ASIO Multimedia at 96 KHz and 192 kHz
When operating at 96 kHz and 192 kHz, the E-MU Digital Audio System does not support the Steinberg ASIO Multimedia or DirectSound/MME drivers. You should NOT attempt to use these drivers when running at these sample rates. At 96 kHz and 192 kHz, we recommend you only use the E-MU ASIO driver."

Any chance for RMAA programmers to add ASIO driver support?

[Edited: Fixup, February 27, 2004 10:31 AM]

Geo
unregistered
posted February 27, 2004 05:25 PMIP
Thx for the post:)
What are the type of the operational amplifiers?

Dave Hamaker
unregistered
posted February 27, 2004 09:02 PMIP
Fixup wrote:

"Any chance for RMAA programmers to add ASIO driver support?"

RMAA can write out its test files and and analyze the recording of it done with other software, so all you need is a program or programs that can use ASIO for playback/recording.

-Dave Hamaker
dwh@cfcl.com

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 9
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 28, 2004 07:44 AMprofile • IP
Dave: thank you, I'll try that.

Geo:

There are total 6 op amps, all are JRC 3292B. Two in the two output channels section and four in the input channels section. The input channels section have two mechanic relays for switching between +4dB and -10dB. Afterwards are the AKM AK5394AVS (same as Lynx L22) and Cirrus Logic CS-4398-CZ (Lynx L22 uses 4396). This is the 2020 I/O board which does not have PCI pins.

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 10
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 28, 2004 08:25 AMprofile • IP
Here is 2444 test result:

http://www.fixup.net/products/benchmarks/1212m2444.htm

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 11
Registration: Feb 2004
posted February 28, 2004 10:00 AMprofile • IP
quote:
meroveus:
[q]Fixup:
What could be possibly wrong for this E-MU 1212M card(s)?
Drivers?[/q]

Exactly. Like all Creative software/driver, this 1212M is no exception. The driver is huge (take up 20MB memory, running in user mode, not in service mode) and hangs after about a while of WinAmp playing. I tried to close the driver through WinXP's Task Manager, no way. I tried to shutdown the machine, no way. I then try to start it, here is the error message:

"PatchMix DSP Error!

Error starting PatchMix DSP

You should wait about 10 seconds, and then try runnning PatchMix DSP again.

If you see this message again, you may need to reboot your system.

Click 'Yes' to reboot now or 'No' to try again, or reboot later."

Of course I waited far longer than 10 seconds. Even worse, WinXP cannot shutdown normally and I have to push the reset button.

This have happended more than three times in the 24 hours after I got this card.

What a great hardware and what a crappy software!!!

anoynmous
unregistered
posted March 01, 2004 01:14 AMIP
someone want to tell me how it's possible to get >96db with only 16-bit precision?

pcchen
unregistered
posted March 01, 2004 12:45 PMIP
Perhaps because it's A-weighted?

meroveus
Member

Posts: 53
Registration: Aug 2002
posted March 01, 2004 01:13 PMprofile • IP
WOW!
Thanks Fixup, for the test results. 24/44 is most important for me, and I guess most of us.

I didn't expect the card to be this good, but was going to buy it mainly for the software filters.
So I guess this one card can do everything (err.. once the drivers are completed! )

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 14
Registration: Feb 2004
posted March 01, 2004 09:35 PMprofile • IP
My pleasure. Lately, the driver has not crashed again in the last two days; so it is ok. I think this card(s) is fantastic. By putting ADI/ADO in a separate board, it is much easier for EMU to achieve better performance than Lynx which has everything in one board.

sentry
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registration: Mar 2004
posted March 01, 2004 09:56 PMprofile • IP
well the lynx is showing better frequency response and lower noise, so its not correct to generally say the emu has better performance.

Also i'm not impressed that SB Live 5.1 Plat has better frequency response (+0.02, -0.11 @16bit 48khz), than the emu card (+0.03, -0.20.)

I am curious about the quality of the mic inputs on the emu 1820's audio dock. Looks pretty good with all those analog inputs.

Daniel
unregistered
posted March 02, 2004 01:33 AMIP
Could anyone test this card with KX drivers (www.kxproject.com) to see if it's a disguised Audigy 2?

Thanks....

meroveus
Member

Posts: 54
Registration: Aug 2002
posted March 02, 2004 05:42 AMprofile • IP
sentry:
I doubt that you or anyone else could detect a 0.2 db difference at 20kHz, so the frequency graph is as flat as you need it to be.


Daniel:
There are a number of reasons why this card is not a worked-over Audigy 2.
The most important reason is it doesn't resample to 48k, which means it doesn't use the Emu10k1 or 10k2.
The performance proves it is not an Audigy in any shape or form, but should rather be seen as the successor to the APS.
It is doubtful the KX drivers will ever be able to control it.

I am surprised though, that all six versions use the same basic 1010 card - so the high-end packages only have superior connectivity and wordclock options to justify their higher prices.

I will wait for several iteration of drivers before buying one of these packages - my long wait has finally ended.

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 15
Registration: Feb 2004
posted March 02, 2004 08:27 AMprofile • IP
sentry got a reason for his question.

Seems 1212M share the same or similar DSP processors with Audigy, Audigy 2 and Audigy 2 ZS. Here is found in a note included in the package for 1212M/1820/1820M:

"Important Information for Audigy, Audigy 2 and Audigy 2 ZS Owners
IF YOU OWN OR HAVE OWNED AN AUDIGY SERIES SOUND CARD READ THIS NOW!
After installing the E-MU 1010 PCI card, the Windows device manager may IMMEDIATELY attempt to install older Creative drivers.

It is CRITICAL that you CANCEL the operation when one of following dialogs appear:

  • For Windows XP - A Found New Hardware Wizard dialog will appear.[/*]
  • For Windows 2000 - A Microsoft Digital Signature warning dialog will appear.[/*]

Once you have cancelled this operation, you may safely install the E-MU Digital Audio System Software using the Software/Driver Installation CD-ROM.

Note: If you follow this procedure, it is not necessary for you to uninstall the older Creative driver. Both products should now function properly. If you mistakenly fail to click CANCEL and the older Creative driver is installed, please contact E-MU Consumer Support for assistance."

You've got an idea.

Ward
unregistered
posted March 02, 2004 01:40 PMIP
As I am looking for a card that can be the base for an audio measurement system I am very interested to see its 24/192 performance. Can anyone test this?

Thanks!

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 16
Registration: Feb 2004
posted March 02, 2004 02:59 PMprofile • IP
Note that 24/96 and 24/192 tests are not straight forward with this card. You must play and record with other programs and then use RMAA to do analysis. See earlier posts for details.

lol
unregistered
posted March 02, 2004 06:47 PMIP
:smirk::smirk::smirk::smirk::smirk:

meroveus
Member

Posts: 55
Registration: Aug 2002
posted March 03, 2004 10:47 AMprofile • IP
I've seen that tech tip in the E-mu readme pdf.
Since Windows frequently misidentifies hardware, it doesn't prove the E-Mu cards have 10k chips.

But I don't know why we are having this discussion, for you Fixup, are in the best position to end it definitively. You just need to open your case and tell us what the main chips on your 1010 card are.

Fixup
Junior Member

Posts: 17
Registration: Feb 2004
posted March 03, 2004 10:52 PMprofile • IP
merovenus, which chip should I look for? I know analog ICs, but I know nothing about the special chips that EMU/Creative use in Audigy cards. Anyway, these are the card pictures, please look at them and tell us what chips are in there.

http://www.fixup.net/pictures/1212m1.jpg (1600x1200, 384.2Kb)
http://www.fixup.net/pictures/1212m2.jpg (1600x1200, 445.9Kb)

[Edited: Fixup, March 09, 2004 10:34 PM]

pcchen
unregistered
posted March 04, 2004 07:01 AMIP
It's the chip marked "E-MU E-DSP." However, the chip on Audigy 2 ZS is also marked as "Audigy 2 ZS"...
They appear to have the same number of pins, though.

meroveus
Member

Posts: 56
Registration: Aug 2002
posted March 04, 2004 07:47 AMprofile • IP
Yes, the E-Mu E-DSP seems to be a 208 pin QFP, but it must be an enhanced chip, not a 10k chip like in the Audigies.


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Topic closed (Maxim Liadov)

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